Lady in red

[kellimarie]

GNS and Back to the future have two things in common. They are both funny and exciting, and for most of their storyline, break the laws of timetravel and infinity loops.
The best example in GNS, for there are many, is the episode 'My heart belongs to daddy'. Gary and Ron are talking in the shop when an old down and out walks in and wants to sell some stuff. The mans turns out to be Gary's son, Michael who sells Gary some bits and pieces and the red dress Gary buys Phoebe. Desperate to find out how and why his son ends up like this he has Ron follow Michael back to the dive his son calls home. Gary then calls at this place with the pretence that the record he sold was worth a lot more than he was given and Gary had brought the difference but after seeing the way his landlord treats him, he knew that helping him now was not enough, the damage was already done so Gary goes back in time and asks Noel if the royalties from the song he wrote for Phoebe could be put into a trust fund for Michael. Returning to the present, Gary is in the shop when an alternate older Michael walks in, attracted by the music. A conversation begins and Gary learns that Micheal is now a successful engineer with a wife and kids living in New Zealand over in England on a visit. And whats the mistake? Yes folks, you guessed it, the red dress is STILL lying on the counter. Gary changed Michael's life from the forties onwards so the down and out version would not exist, and therefore could not sell the dress to Gary. But without it, the conversation about Michael's life, and the fact that his mother had one exactly like it wouldn't have started. And the infinity loop? Gary changes Michaels life so he doesn't become the down and out, he doesn't go to the shop, Gary doesn't learn about him and therefore doesn't set up the trust fund so the engineer Michael reverts back to the down and out Michael and the whole cycle starts again.
Welcome to Geeksville, may I help you? ;D

[jrichard88]

When I watch time travel-based films and TV shows, I like to subscribe to the idea that there are an infinite number of timelines with an infinite number of variables, so when Gary makes those changes, subsequent events spiral off into a new or different timeline, preventing any paradoxes from occurring

[aspadistra]

Yup. Cos, otherwise...

Michael is a success, so he never goes to the shop with the dress, so Gary doesn't think to have the trust fund set up, so Michael's a failure, so he sells the red dress...

Grandfather paradox. My head hurts!

[aspadistra]

This ep is particularly interesting. It's obvious that Gary and Phoebe have both died by the time older Michael visits. What puzzles me is why Gary would have needed the royalties/trust fund to ensure
Michael's future - with his foreknowledge, Gary should have been able go build up a decent business empire...unless whoever monitors the time portals keeps an eye on that type of thing. Hmmm.

[kellimarie]

Mar 17, 2012 4:19:33 GMT -5 aspadistra said:

This ep is particularly interesting. It's obvious that Gary and Phoebe have both died by the time older Michael visits. What puzzles me is why Gary would have needed the royalties/trust fund to ensure
Michael's future - with his foreknowledge, Gary should have been able go build up a decent business empire...unless whoever monitors the time portals keeps an eye on that type of thing. Hmmm.

Good point but it stills produces an infinity loop, giving Michael a better start in life means he doesn't sell the dress removing the reason to give him a better start in life, an endless loop.

[kellimarie]

Mar 15, 2012 1:38:29 GMT -5 jrichard88 said:

When I watch time travel-based films and TV shows, I like to subscribe to the idea that there are an infinite number of timelines with an infinite number of variables, so when Gary makes those changes, subsequent events spiral off into a new or different timeline, preventing any paradoxes from occurring

Your thinking is along the lines of Jet Li's The One. Every descision creates a new multiverse or timeline. If this is the case, it won't help the down and out Michael, he'll still be there in Gary's reality but a new reality will be created where the successful Michael will live out his life.

[aspadistra]

A lot of unanswered questions.

Why does Michael not know about the west end flat still being on his dad's name? Unless... Gary knew that Ron would need it, so paid Ron back by not passing on the deeds to Michael.

[kellimarie]

Apr 3, 2012 5:08:45 GMT -5 aspadistra said:

A lot of unanswered questions.

Why does Michael not know about the west end flat still being on his dad's name? Unless... Gary knew that Ron would need it, so paid Ron back by not passing on the deeds to Michael.

Ah, but don't forget, the down and out Michael did state that he fell into bad company when he was young and drifted away from the family, going to prison etc whereas the successful Michael went to New Zealand which is why neither of them got the West End flat.

[malcolm]

It all comes back for there to be a same or similar end to the direction we take. There was a very good movie in which a man begins a new year off and then has a dreadful year ending I think in tragedy. He then finds himself back a year earlier at that same New Year's Eve. He tries to change events by moving, etc., but no matter what he does everything still takes him to the inevitable tragedy.

The Red Dress isn't a problem since as the events change then so do the actions which cause it to be in Gary's shop at the right time. There are many ways that this could have happened, and one would be for Ron to have found it in some hidden part of the flat.